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You are listening to Making Mama Magic with honest and authentic conversations about all things related to modern motherhood, wholehearted living and peaceful parenting. Join me and my guests in our chats about redefining motherhood and parenting in a way that focuses on purpose, peace and presence while pursuing dreams and live career and business in our unique, magical way. I am your host - Ava, and I empower moms to parent with connection and curiosity and to own their confidence in motherhood.

Hi, welcome to making mama magical cast into this episode. I speak with Kristy thomas, an early childhood educator based in Canada and also a resource for educators associate she's passionate about bringing parents and educators together, were interested in offering respectful care for Children without the pressure for perfect for me.

I started my empowered parenting journey by learning about the power of presence and connection through the work of the founder of RIE, which is a Resource For Infants EduCarers and her name is Magda Gerber. So it was really lovely chatting with Kristy on these topics. They are close to our hearts, such as how can respectful parenting help in building self confidence and trust in our Children since they are babies for the ways that are simple and easy to start off parenting with respect with our Children amidst the business of life work and parenting how cast connection impacted the way we parent and how our Children engages us and last but not least is respectful parenting= permissive parenting. How can parents dispute in a way that's effective while also parenting them and treating our Children with respect. So this is a really juicy episode. I had a really hard time trying to draw the essence of this, but I think whatever that is in this episode is really a great summary and encapsulate the essence of respectful parenting and I hope you enjoyed the episode and with that, let's dive into this today.

I have the honor with me, Kristy thomas who will be shared with us about her work on educating and the rest of book parenting approach. So welcome Khristy to making mama Magic podcast. Thank you. It's really exciting to be here. Great, thank you so much for being here as I start share with us about yourself and your work. Sure. My name's Kristy Thomas and I do a lot of writing online under inspired by infant, which is where I share a lot about my work with as a RIE associate which stands for Resources for infant EduCarers. Um I'm also a mom up to teenage girls Lillian Olivia who are 15 and 18. My full time job is actually working as a program director for an early childhood center church.

Nice. So you mentioned about RIE which is one of the things that you are trade in as RIE associate. Could you share a bit more about your journey and right and respectful parenting and educating and how is it in spite you in terms of your parenting journey as well as your work in early childhood.

For sure. Yeah. So I heard actually about resource for infant educators and Magda Gerber when I was a student in early childhood many, many years ago. It really was something that resonated well with me more recently in 2017 where I had the opportunity to do the more intensive course, learning about what does work, learning about the right principles and studying more thoroughly what those practices kind of looked like putting respect into action. I recognized that this was like an approach that I really wanted to dive into further and study and share with not only families that I work with, but educators that I work with as well. What I loved about it was it taught me to kind of slow down and really be intentional with how I engage with my Children and and other people's Children and it's a practice that really helps us um, support the raising a respectful generation and so practices that I think if we were to start in early childhood would really build a strong community. Mm Yeah.

I've read a number of books by Magda Gerber and I felt such pieces reading the boat, I think right has really transformed the way I see parenting. I was raised in an asian household where there's a lot of emphasis on achievements on more, you know what we can do as a person and when I first got to know right. I was quite amazed by this kind of parenting can exist. That's one of the first thought that came to my mind and and I remember I got to know right when my first bond was like around five or six months and I was thinking wow this is such a powerful way to engage Children and honor them for who they are that being. And yeah, it's just beautiful to see the power of connection and presence. Absolutely, yeah. And and how we as parents have that power in a way to influence and inspire Children to grow in their own ways and really to honor who they are as a unique being because babies, they are, they are just also being as well. Sometimes we often do things to them, not with that. So I think that's also one of the things that I have learned through right and also through monetary practices that I've learned and adopted in my as part of my own training that I did about monastery as well. Yeah, so I think it's a wonderful way that I have learned along my journey to, to really, to learn about more by myself and also learn more about my Children since they were little beings for sure. Yeah, the impact like I as you say, just how Magda puts it like someone is deeply invested in me and like just accepting who you are in that moment and just how empowering that feeling is and I just think you know what a gift we can give Children from a very young age that who they are and what they are doing in that moment is perfectly okay and right and at a pace that is on track, right?

It just, it's to me it's a practice that really fit for families and Children of all different developmental levels and abilities. It really just like you say it's super empowering and like to start that message from so young and then for them to carry that into young adulthood and then later parent themselves from that place, they just, they get such a huge gift that we can give to that future generation as well. Yeah, indeed

A lot of moms - they are quite confused with a lot of parenting stuff nowadays yet, I mean they are in different terms like positive parenting, respectful parenting and then there's a lot of different tools and discipline methods and everything. What would you tell a new mom, like if let's say they want to practice the right approach, but they are like full time working mothers, but they still want to do it in some ways on another, what do you think is a starting point for them? I think the biggest thing that I've come to realize is that it is okay to just enjoy some of those moments that we don't need to enter every moment or experience or every day with so much expectation of ourselves of our Children, I think they're never is a sense where we would have to tell a mom to do more because by nature as moms we tend to do do do and add a little bit more in there because we want to offer our very best for our journey and then think sometimes we forget that we can just be present with our Children, that we can just pause for a moment and enjoy the moment for what it is and give ourselves grace that if it wasn't perfect, there's another moment coming. Yeah, I just I love Magda says Do Less, Observe More, Enjoy Most. Mm Because that's something that we can just easily do. Like flow ourselves down and just pause for a second to appreciate what's happening. Right then.

Yeah, that's one of my favorite quotes from Magda. So I think that's something that I really try to consciously do in my own parenting approach. I mean like a lot of us try on feeling productivity and feel like, you know, we want to do enough for ourselves in our work in our own parenting journey. So much so that we have the pressure to do for also for our Children. Whether is it in terms of them wanting to play or or interact something or giving them the exposure that we think they need as a human and as a growing child. But there's also a power in terms of uh really honoring who they are as a person like what you mentioned early on, there's this magic in the being with right? Really to kind of like north peace and slow down and being mindful and with that full presence. And I do see that through that infants, especially if I first bond they, they feel more confident, they feel more secure in terms of trying to do what they want and you know, achieving what they think they can, they can do within their own pace of course. And that's really beauty in terms of feeling the empowerment since young, it's really giving them the power of curiosity to to be willing to explore and learn. Yeah. So I mean that itself is really something that it goes back to what kind of tributes that the mother wants a child to have if confidence and security is something that Mothers one In the child that I think the approach of Rye definitely would be something that they can explore and learn how they can introduce as part of their parenting journey as well. Yeah, I sometimes I have talked with even my team of educators about that there's always this sense of needing to do something. This expectation that we have to be busy, we have to, that if we're just sitting and being present with our Children that somehow we're not doing enough and it's just that which of mindset is that instant of, what are we doing? Thinking about like who are we being when them are we treating them with respect. Are we talking to them and involving them in what's happening? Are we like encouraging their participation rather than like moving them around like you say like objects, right? They're citizens too and and involving them in that and really just honoring that like right away is so much doing it. You know, it just looked a little different than the business of our world around us. And it's funny because the pandemic because it almost, it's like the perfect time. I think it's some of these conversations because it kind of forced us to stop and slow down a bit more and we kind of didn't know what to do with ourselves because that was so unusual. And yet when you like really dive into like what Magda shares in her principles and practices is really just like, you know, blow on our case down and not rushing through life because you know like that idea of stopping and smelling the roses, you know, like we can move a little slower and will actually get more out of it because it's like quality, not like so much other excess.

We're used to multitasking and doing so many things at one time. It's hard to kind of put aside that running list of things that we have to get done or or phones or all those kinds of things, peaceful partnerships with our Children really starts from infancy. I mean there are no things that matter mentioned inside the book while you were talking about this, I had a memory where I was introducing my first born, I think then he was probably around six or seven months old, two options of clothing. So I was just inviting him to choose and my father in law said that please don't give him the choice. You know, he will always want something in his way. But I was thinking like yeah that's what I was trying to do to invite him to participate and to be involved in the caregiving activities. And I think that's one of the easiest way mothers and parents could start doing respectful parenting because we are already doing all these caregiving activities every day, right? It's using these opportunities that is present and kind of inviting them to be part of the process, part of the experiences together. Yeah, yeah. The amount of time we spend in caregiving routin.

Absolutely. Such as a simple way to like quickly add like that element of respectable parenting into your everyday routines, talking with your child, telling them what's going to happen next. Like you said, even just a simple choice of you know the red shirt or the blue shirt showing them and giving them the opportunity to grab which one they want. You know sometimes like we think about how we would want to be treated just as you know human beings when people ask our opinion or tell us what's going to happen next. We feel like we're a part of the process in your journey as uh early childhood educator and also a mom to two.

How have you seen connection impact the way that the Children engage you in terms of like activities of things that you do with them? Yeah, I think sometimes as adults we kind of force that participation because you know, we're the adults and we should be in control and I think shifting to the educating approach and and inviting Children's participation, like giving them time to make some choices of are they comfortable and are they ready to join me? I've seen stronger bonds with Children in that way because they know they can trust me that they know what to expect when I'm with them. They know that they're going to be included, but on the same token that I'm gonna have, you know, set some boundaries to the adult that has a little bit more life experience and is going to be there to keep them safe. I think involving them in conversations right from a very young age and using authentic language and um talking to them just as he would any other person for my Children now as Jersey young adult, I found that we have a lot of really deep and meaningful conversations like we have had that throughout their years and I know that they will come talk to me about things and that we can have that back and forth exchange and so it it's really been kind of nice to see that and that whole idea of like the terrible twos and the terrible teenagers, I I feel like that really changes things when you respect them right away and you talk to them and you involves them um then they are seen as like they don't have to like fight for them and and so I just feel like the connection and the relationship building is so much more authentic and we're reel. Yeah. Yeah, nice to also hear from your experience being a parent to two teenagers and I think because a lot of moms and parents, we often think okay, you know, we're doing this is hard, but we know that there's something we want to do, but it's also something worthwhile that we can do because hearing from stories from you, you know, like the journey of parenting to the respective parenting a push until teen and beyond.

While you're talking, it reminded me of the book that I was reading called Hold to Your Kids by Gordon Newfield, he also mentioned about the power of connection and relationships and how it will impact us of like way beyond teenagers and adulthood because the relationship since as a child as a as an infant event impacts the way that our Children see us and as they go along to have meet more friends and peers, they can have interest in in what their friends are doing at all. But in the end, if the relationship with the parents is strong and secure, they will still see their parents as like an anchor as, as a way of guiding their own decision making and making sense of the world. So I think it's something that I feel it's important, but it takes effort for parents to really to be aware as a constant basis and reading practice and remind ourselves that what matters most is the relationship with our Children, right? It's not about what we do, what they do is the relationship.

Yes, for sure. Yeah, it is one of those things where it isn't a short game, like an immediate fix all the time, like it's a hard but very worthwhile process. Like I always think of like one of those life long outcomes that you want and like we just practice them in different ways. Like as an infant, we give them the opportunity to kind of like struggle in small things and like practicing rolling over and there to encourage them and say you got this, you could do this right rather than forcing that because it's on our agenda. But then when they're, you know, younger Children, it may be, you know, struggling to make friends a little bit like listening to them and watching them have some of those struggles to really show them that they're competent and capable in some of those skills and then, you know, later on, like as we saw this past year for my oldest daughter, like going off to university, like we were able to really look back and be like, I wonder if, you know, and giving her some opportunities as an infant, as a toddler, as a young child to say you struggle as part of life and mistakes are part of life, but it's also you could do it and we're here to help you and we're here to cheer you on, got to do it for you and make life super easy, but to trust in your competence and to be available to ask for help, like it just seems like those processes and like you say, knowing that the parents can be an anchor and the relationship can be solid. Like you just think ahead to like, well then maybe like when they become parents themselves then they can, you know, return to us and you know, say, oh no, do I really know? Like it just kind of comes full circle and I just like, it isn't just a practice that is just for one age, right? It's something that is so applicable for bold life. It's just that situations just change, get older.

Yeah, that's beautiful to have the sense that you're a child, a person can be trusted to do what they can do and will learn eventually and to discover more about themselves as a person as they grow along in their journey from even to toddler, two Children and two teenagers and two and parenthood. Yeah. Well the whole stages of life.

Yeah, I mean, for for me, I've been practicing respectful parenting for the past four years, but it's hard because sometimes you're in the trenches of like, yes, you know, difficult situations, like, because I have a second borm who is almost six months now (as of recordining in Aug 2022) and it's been really rough for my firstborn because so many transitions in his life. But I think it's really about knowing what's the focus, the relationship, the parenting and conversations with people like you and with other people who believe in it and that really helps to give that perspective right? To know that that is something that needs work is hard work and it's worthwhile work because yeah, I think it's important to remember that um we will make mistakes, like that's kind of an extent thing and some days it's gonna be harder and we'll go off the rails, you know, some days we will shout talk louder, but we can kind of come back to it and be like, okay, we made a mistake, let's try us again and like, oh, I struggled with that a lot as a young mom wanting to do it like perfectly or I should do this or I should know this because, you know, I ran this practice or train educators like rises so hard, you know? But my journey looks very different from someone else's journey, and it doesn't make it better or worse, it's mine and in my Children, and we're all very unique to other people, and I think at the time, like, in those trenches, I didn't necessarily see that, and I struggled with that a lot, but now as I'm teaching and engaging with more people that are trying on this practice and people are sharing online a lot more and being a little bit more open to authentically sharing things. Like, it's not happiness and, like, rainbows, you know, that real life is hard sometimes, and that's okay, like, and so I think that's why I love sharing about the practice, because it helped a for like, it's okay to make mistakes and and like, your mistakes can serve a purpose to help somebody else go, oh good, it's not just me that, you know, I had a hard to do with that, and so I think it really fun to connect with people that are practicing this or trying it on and really wanting the best for their Children and for their communities and knowing that we can all kind of encourage one another and help each other out like that. We're not just doing it by ourselves without larger community.

Yeah, like what the line always says it takes a village to raise a child, and it also takes a village to raise and empower mothers to, you know, parent in a way that feels good to them like because there's so many pressures from everywhere in this society, from families, from other people from their workplaces and that support is so much needed for mothers to feel more confident as well in terms of what kind of parent they want to be and how they want to engage and build the relationship with their Children. It's me man, Yeah, it's a brave journey for sure. It's not an easy one but it's so as I say like truly, truly worthwhile. Yeah I mean it's quite funny because we talk about trust in our own Children sometimes we kind of like don't trust ourselves I think sometimes that you know we should have done better when they are sleeping and we are like late at night thinking about Phoebe and I do that very often as well. It's quite funny also I think it's I guess that's the journey of being a mother, right? Like we want to do better.

Yeah all our Children one is really our own presence and time with them and they know that we are available for them to lean on us for decisions for comfort, for whatever whatever they need. Yeah. Yeah it's not a we're not being graded or evaluated you know even though like our reflective brains that that is like a curse of people that like learn and grow and reflect overdo it, times can let it be enjoying it Magda is trying to tell us to sometimes enjoy it. Yeah. And just between just just really look at it with with let's just enjoy really just to know that our Children are with us and our people who we love are with us and and just really enjoy and being present. I think it is easy to say to some people but it takes effort.

Yes, for sure, you know more achievers and all. But I think once we realize the magic of being present, being with, I think it's beautiful because we stop thinking about what we need to do. Yeah. I think the doing part, it's really linked to how we see ourselves being productive and how we identify ourselves as as a person who need to do it all and what to do with our Children. Something that I really appreciated how the right approach has given me that space to notice this beautiful moments in the mundane in in those magical moments of caregiving that we can slow down and just be present as well.

Yeah, let's talk about the topic about discipline. So one of the things that I have noticed from some friends and people that I spoke with about discipline, especially in respectful parenting and RIE approaches, would you be able to share a bit more about like what is the perspective of discipline in right?

Yeah. Yeah. I think sometimes the misconception is inside of you know respectful parenting or gentle parenting is that we somehow don't ever utilize discipline in terms of guidance and and I think that's where Magda was. That discipline is to peach and and to to guide its not punished. So it's it's not completely disregarding guidance but it's doing it in a respectful way. And so thinking about simple rules, simple things that we want Children to follow and clear and consistent boundaries and expectations sharing with the Children what it is that we get them and be clear and consistent in how we support them in kind of following those practices and following the kind of rules and expectations.

Yeah. So I think it's great to know that there are still things that we do if we practice discipline under parenting or right approaches. It's not it's not, you know, the the typical ways of discipline, like what we know, but really it's the boundaries that we set for Children. Yeah. And I think just going back again to that relationship piece, really helping the Children to understand kind of the why behind what we're asking them or just engaging them in that process so that they understand so that they're following because they're wanting to be active participants not they're following just because they are blindly compliant sometimes I think in our goal of trying to keep Children safe, we kind of enforce rules and rigid and really stern and use those like old school authoritarian techniques of like but inside of the educating approach, it's really just um, understanding a child's perspective, like if they're doing something out of curiosity or because there is a developmentally appropriate if we can understand their perspective, but because we have more life experience that we know why things happen in a certain way or why certain items need to be out of bounds or that are that are not safe to utilize in a certain way. We can be clear and consistent in in those expectations and help them understand that it's you know, for their safety or for for their well being, not just a blind rule to follow for no reason at all.

Yeah, I think also sometimes people might find the RIE approach on the respective parenting approach may not work because they find that their Children may keep on testing the boundaries and limits and they might find that it's not working. I need to use more authoritative ways or like loud voices, but I think it's also having the knowledge that it's normal for children to test limits and boundaries as well, it's not because it's not working, but it's their own innate curiosity, I guess. Like what you mentioned in terms of wanting to make sure that that boundary is firm and that boundary is there to keep me safe. I think that's something that a lot of parents might find it a bit concerning about such kind of poachers.

Yeah, it takes it takes a little bit more time and intention patient for sure, because as you say, it is truly like typical and normal for Children to test those boundaries, it's kind of like that the fence, you know, they'll push against that, that in that fence to see, is it is it solid, or is it a movable fence? Right. And so that's where that the consistency and the clarity comes in, you know, simple and clear and consistent, just reaffirm it. Yeah, this for sure is the boundary, you know, I think about things like, you know, when we say it's bedtime and we've gone through that process of bedtime and running now, I'm gonna say good night and we're going to close the door and and we'll see you in the morning, you'll stay in your room. I think sometimes that one scenario I guess that, you know, Children like to test that boundary. Well what if I come out and consider try this, what if I commit what happens and like do this, you know, but if we set that clear boundary of, you know, ensuring that their needs are met and and all those things, but reinforcing the consistency of, but we're going to go back to our room because, you know, we're gonna sleep here and we'll see you in the morning, you know, as they're old enough to really understand that, that then that consistency and not consistent practice of like reinforcing this is what we're going to follow through on and the reason is your body needs rest at a safe place, you know, simple things where we can reinforce those things in a way that is respectful and that Children to understand them. Yeah, definitely.

I love that you mentioned about letting them know that their body needs rest because I think as they grow older as Children, having attunement within themselves, allows them to trust themselves and their bodies and their decisions as well, which I've noticed that that helps my child, my older child who is Four this year to be aware of and I think it leads him to make decisions that he feels that okay, I'm just going to try this and work this out and do something that makes my body feel good and I think that, yeah, I think that's a beautiful way to allow them to feel confident in what he's doing and knowing what interests them or not interest them. I think it's, it's like a scarffolding of building that confidence. Yeah, I was just really quite amazed by, by how he's trying to figure out with his little brains as well, like trying to think so beautiful to see how his thinking, process that imagination involved as well when he's given that important to trust in himself. Yeah, to trust his instincts yes and what his body is signaling to him for sure.

Yeah, yeah, we could all, we could all learn those skills from that very young Children. Yeah. Yeah. Because they just saw innately in a two come back to us as adults. Unfortunately, sometimes we are so busy doing so many things and our work and our family and all and I mean, we learned so much from our Children, right? If we see them, you know, really a tune and we ourselves, it's also a sign for us to pause and just be more mindful in terms of our thoughts, our our being as a first. Yeah. Yeah. I actually, that is one of the reasons why I chose the name of my business inspired by inference is I really do think when you closely pay attention to them, they're like so beautifully designed humans like a young invent will let us know when they're hungry and play until they're tired and fall asleep. You know, we really let them and slowly over time we, as human beings like you say, get so busy. We forget to trust our body telling us when we're hungry or when we're tired or when we need a break. And so like it is beautiful to see when, like you say, your son is like learning, what does this feel like? Can I do this? Should I try this? You know, do I need to pause for a moment or have a rest? You know, not to see it as like a punishment like we sometimes as adults do like, oh, I'm resting I must be really lazy. No, you're resting because we need to free. I mean, yeah, I mean it's great.

It's interesting because we're learning from Children and invents through the EduCaring approach, but we're also retraining that in ourselves and trying to model that for our Children too. So that its practices that they can believe in their bodies, they can trust themselves and their capabilities. They're like such mighty learners and we sometimes work at that. So to have a trusted adult really affirming that message for them. I think it's really important and just for ourselves as caregivers, remind a good reminder of some important lessons that we could maybe grab onto.

Yeah, definitely. I think motherhood and parenting has allowed me to really reflect very deeply about the person that I am and the person I want to be and the parent I want to be. And I think it's always, Yeah, I mean it's it's really like what you say, I'm always inspired by my own children and to think about what kind of things I could be as a model to them and not just modeling, but also embodying those things within me and to be that person that I want for myself, not for the Children, but for myself as well. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. So how do you think mothers in this modern age quilt can enjoy parenting and motherhood better whether it's in terms of mindsets or in terms of things to do or whether in terms of any ideas that you think they could really just enjoy.

Well I think one of the things that I've learned is that it's okay to take care of yourself too, if we take good care of ourselves, we're better able to care for others. And so it's not selfish to also make sure that your needs are met as well and in modeling that your Children also learn some self awareness of others as well that others have needs too. I would love to see all them like starting out their journey, be reminded of that and not to feel bad about also hearing themselves and their needs, you know that our Children don't have any set expectation of who we are going to be or what we should be. They just want us and they just want to spend time with us and they want us to enjoy spending time with them too. And so it doesn't have to be huge. It can just be those little moments and you know, having a conversation with them or having a diaper change, looking them face to face and just you know, taking, taking some time to enjoy that moment and also not being afraid to ask for help but not being afraid to say it's hard. I think that that is a hard because we always want to succeed but asking for help is also a life skill that our Children will appreciate in life too And sometimes we need help too. Like we were talking before it takes a village. So it's okay to ask for help and to try again the next day.

If people would like to connect with you, how can they connect with you and get to know about your work at the right approach for sure. So on instagram - i'm at @inspiredbyinfantd, so I have an account there and I also have a website of the same name www.inspiredbyinfants.ca. You can message me through any of those platforms and yeah, I just, I love connecting with other people want to talk about this stuff. It helps me learn more too and gain better perspective.

Thank you so much for sharing, Kristy and I'll put all the links in the shownote of the episode so that people can get connected with you and have conversations about the RIE and also the EduCaring approach.

Awesome. Thank you so much. It was so great to meet you. Thank you so much for being on the plan.

If you'd like to further the conversation with me to connect me at Instagram @_thecuriousmama or subscribe to my newsletter where I will share a bit more about resources relating to this topic, And if you'd like to show your love for this podcast, please leave a rating on Apple Podcasts. This will really mean a lot to me. Til then, take care and remember that you are enough and keep on making magic in your unique way.