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You are listening to Making Mama Magic with honest and authentic conversations about all things related to modern motherhood, wholehearted living, and peaceful parenting. Join me and my guests in our chats about redefining motherhood and parenting in a way that focuses on purpose, peace, and presence while pursuing dreams in life, career, and business in our unique magical way.

I am your host, Ava, and I empower mums to parent with connection and curiosity and to own their confidence in motherhood. Hi welcome to Making Mama Magic.

Today I have the honor with me, Yasmine Begum, the founder of Away from Mum Guilt, to talk with us on the topic of mom guilt. Welcome Yasmine on Making Mama Magic podcast.

Hi Ava, I'm really glad to be here. Right, so as a start, could you share with me more about you and your work and also something interesting about you?

Okay, more about me, a mom of all the kids. So I have two who are 12 and above and I have two who are eight and below, so they're on two ends. Professionally, I'm a marketing consultant. I work with small and micro business owners. And this Away from Mom Guilt is, I would call that the heart work of mine. I started this in 2018 to promote self-care among fellow mums. We have grown organically through the support of fellow mums. There's a lot of fellow mums like yourself who have come forward and helped us grow this into what it is now. We're doing a lot more ad-hoc events.

Yeah, I love that the events that you have shared so far is really focused on reminding mothers like self-care, other than supporting our families, managing our families. There's so many other things that could help them to reconnect back with themselves.

Just curious, what inspired you to start the group?

I guess like they say, you start things from your own suffering. I was a very bitter person when I had my two boys. They were only two years apart and I loved them with all my heart, but it was very tough. And motherhood has been a very tough, it still is a tough journey for me. One of my most fulfilling, like the toughest journey that I have actually ever gone through.

When I had my two younger boys and they were younger, it was just a whole lot of frustration and a lot of things that I faced. And I actually went on very automatic mode to a point that got me really burnt out. I still didn't know what was happening until I managed to stumble upon self-awareness, which actually put a pause into saying that I actually don't even know what I'm thinking.

I don't know how I'm feeling and I don't even know what are my triggers. Like I'm just waking up, I'm going, going, going, and then I'm just crushing the bed at night. And that is not really how I wanted to live my life. And so after my girl, my third, I think I had some time to think about these things.

And somehow when I went into this whole, "I want to like understand myself better". Interestingly it made me a better mom. Although that wasn't my focus. I was like, I need to get control. I need to know what's my thoughts and emotions, you know. And in the end I realized that actually it made me a better mom.

My kids, they actually told me as well that, you know, it's nicer to see me this way. My husband also told me it's really nice how you are because the whole house is now positive. I realized that starts with us. When you're taking care of yourself and you know why you're shouting or you know when you're going to shout, you are able to take that step back and do something else.

And your kids also know that you're taking care of yourself. It just made sense that it was the way to go and it was such a simple thing to do. But it is also one of the hardest things to do. I was also brought up into believing that females must be doing everything. Moms must sacrifice themselves. You eat after everybody eats.

Learning about mindfulness, learning about self-awareness, lets me have the permission to say I will just take care of one thing at a time. So I'm still peeling my onions per se. It's still thick. But at least I've started peeling.

How about you?

For me, mom guilt. Wow. When I became a mother, I was working full time still and I struggled a lot with mom guilt.

Being away with my child, the shifting of identity, you know, like from a maiden to a mother really hit differently the way I see a lot of things, whether it is in my own life, it is in terms of my work, in terms of my purpose in life, in terms of like triggers.

There were a lot of things that started to bubble up and surface up. Like when I hear my baby - then baby, now not so baby anymore, my eldest one, cry, it surfaced anger and frustration and unworthiness. So that really shaken me in terms of how I see myself and the sense of guilt that I am not at that expectation of a mom that I think I should be.

That awakened me to look at what I should learn and unlearn and relearn in terms of being the mother that I think would reflect the way that I want to live my life and the way that I want to parent. So it's still an ongoing journey. It's always ongoing journey because our children grow and they move into different stages of babyhood, toddler, childhood and teenagers and beyond.

Also for us, we have different seasons of life. We might focus on taking care of children and have other things that we are looking at. So we change accordingly. I resonate with you that motherhood is like one of the toughest things I've done so far. Even though I'm a self-aware person, but I think that amount of inner work to do as a mom is just like a different level altogether as well.

Seeing other mother figures in our lives like sacrificing and we always think that only to sacrifice we need to give up our dreams, be always patient, loving, kind. But the reality is we will never be 100% patient, loving, kind. We have our own emotions and all.

So yeah, it's been a journey trying to learn and unlearn and redefine the way and the version that I choose to parent. So that's been an overview of my journey so far.

Yeah, it's interesting how you mentioned that we feel that we are going to do it this way. I actually quit when I had my kids because I said that, okay, I'm going to be there for my kids and I'm so possessive and I'm going to be there when they do their first steps, their first words, you know. I'm going to be this kind of a mom, that kind of a mom.

And then I did try. I do try and then, you know, it just doesn't work out. I've envisioned myself at something, but most of the days I was a mess. Yeah. Right.

I think one of the most liberating things that I did was like, it took me so many years to actually sit down and say, you know what? I can't do this. I'm not a mom who's okay with just looking after the kids. I'm not that. And I'm going to admit it because, you know, I'm so like, I can do it this, I can do that. I know I must be the best or whatever I do, but I'm like, no, this I suck at. I can't do this at all. And I need something else.

This is not fulfilling my life to 100%. And that's okay. Yeah. See now when I say it, I'm feeling good to hear him saying this sentence. I keep telling myself that if there is something else that I need to fit a puzzle in my life, then that's okay. And that can be my work.

It can be anything that I need to do to have a more fulfilled life because just cooking and cleaning and looking after the children. Although I really admire the moms who actually have pushed their lives with this and they feel so at peace in their roles. It's just not me. Yeah. It's just not me. And that's okay. When I verbalized it out loud, kind of liberated me a bit.

And so, okay, now that I have admitted defeat, what else can I do?

You give yourself the permission to say, you know, you can do something else. And that's when I started becoming a work at home, exploring things.

Of course, all of this will not be possible without my support of my husband. So I will take my husband, he will be my biggest cheerleader. And so for him, his point is whatever makes you happy will actually make the family happy. Something which I didn't realize then, but later on I realized that it's true.

He's been saying this for a decade, but I just figured it out like 10 years down the road. So I think that is very important what you were saying about the mom you wanted to be because that's what the reality is and being able to accept it, maybe even accept the guilt that come with that.

And just maybe you sit down here and just have a cup of coffee or I just do my stuff because it's not going to go away. Yeah.

I mean, I love it that you mentioned about your own perspective about expectations.

And I think we all want to be good mothers, right?

When we become mothers, we want to be there for our children. We want to make sure everything is clean and our children are fair and they are doing well in school and their development milestones are met and everything. And I love it that you mentioned about fulfillment based on what I observed about a lot of moms.

They feel that motherhood is sacrifice and that's like the stage of their lives, like when they are children, we just need to sacrifice, just need to get over and done with, or you need to think about for the first 21 years of their lives, just need to take care of them and then you can have a freedom.

A lot of moms, because of that mindset about sacrifice, it holds them back from living their life to the fullest. It holds in that resentment within them. And I feel that that can be something that they can have a pause to reflect.

Is that the life that they want? And it's wonderful that you had that moment to pause and you realized that, hey, you know, this is not the life that you want and you want that fulfillment. You want that sense that you are contributing in a different way, in a way that reflects who you are as a person.

And that was also my journey because I left my full-time work and I wanted to be there for my children, for my child at that point, I was one child. And I realized that I needed that work that could allow me that flexibility to support mothers as well as also to see my children grow.

That comes with the exploration and all and finding out what I can do and learning what I can do as well. But I feel that with this in my life, it's really so much more fulfilling. I wouldn't say there's a balance, but I would say that there is time that I can focus on work like right now and speaking with you.

And there's a time for me to be present with my children when they need me instead of finding that I'm in both heads and I'm struggling with not feeling that I can be with my child and struggling with I can't work fully, that kind of thing.

So yeah, I mean, it's really about finding that sense of fulfillment. I feel it's so important for moms to look at it rather than seeing that, hey, other people are doing this. They can do this so well, so perfectly. Look at their Instagram feed. Look at their perfectly curated house with love meeting and all this, like their children are so well behaved and all.

It's only a glimpse of other people's lives, we will never have the full picture of what other moms are doing. And I know that experiencing the sessions that you have, the same conversation with moms, love it that that's a safe space for mothers to go to, to share very honest and authentic experiences and struggles. And I think there should be more platforms like this to really have honest and authentic conversations.

I would love to see for the safe conversations or like the mom circles that you do as well. I think one of the biggest culprits will be the sentence from what we hear in safe conversations also where they say, you know, like say, give me over in Danube.

Oh, they are only young ones. And I'm like, yeah, but I am not the mom I was when I was 27. I look at the way I am looking at my fourth child and I'm like, I'm so sorry. I can't run up to you anymore. I'm not willing to do this anymore.

And I remember that all the crazy things I used to do with my voice in the early years when I was 27 and 29 and the amount of energy we had and the life cycle was different. The life pace was different.

So if you did not do it then and you want to wait 21 years, which is a very long time and you times four, I don't know when you're going to do, what do you want to do?

Definitely there's a lot of bitterness, right? And as we see in this empty nest syndrome, sometimes we get to hear about this and the safe combos. It's not a grief. Yeah. Because you find that you have sacrificed your life and one of the old things and they don't need you anymore. In the words of one of the moms who said, it used to be mommy, mommy, mommy. Now there isn't even a high mommy and you've just been lost.

And that you start finding yourself. And the word that I think I was so sad to hear was the word was grief. Yeah. Your mom was being griefed because you actually grieving over something that's not going to come back.

Right? There's a lot of things you're grieving for. You're grieving for your youth. You're grieving for your lost dreams. You're grieving for your small little kids who want them you and but now they don't want you anymore. And it's just keeps on growing.

So for me, I find that that also puts a negative mark on your parenting journey because you're looking back and regret.

Like, oh, I regret. I regret. Oh, that time when so and so asked me to be their part-time, I should have taken it. I regret, you know, so that's why I find that whatever we do, it's always good to say that we are also young ones. So we are only 40 years old, young ones.

So it's always good to say, do I want to do this now? Or do I want to do this like one or two years later? Never put it into 21 years later. You know, just look at it in the short term and say, if I want to do this now, how can I do it?

What are the arrangements I need? What is the support I need? Can I do it in one or two years time?

And if I'm really not going to do this at all, because it's totally impossible, then it goes into the mindfulness part and the permission part to say, is it okay? Is it okay for me to let go? Because if you're going to grieve and we don't want that when we are 50, right?

So it's more of like making peace with ourselves. And I think that makes us into a more matured parent rather than to force it down our throats to say, hang in there. And after everyone is okay, then you can do what you want. It's not true. My brain doesn't work as well as it used to five years ago.

And if I want to do something, I would want to do it now, but my brain is nice and fresh. So it works. This is definitely something I always like to tell moms who always says, yeah, yes, I just know that I have to hang in there.

I say, no, you don't have to hang in there. Please don't do that. You know? You know, when you say about hanging there, it feels like someone is just hanging on the monkey bar trying to like hold on and grab your... The emojis people share. They're like, just me hanging there. I don't want to do this. I don't like this emoji. Right?

Another thing I don't like when people ask me good things, of course with good intentions, is to say, you're a super mom. Oh yes. I don't want to be a super mom. Yes. I don't want to be this crazy person. That's my pet peeve too. Because we glorify, right?

We glorify polititoski. We glorify this burnout lives and we glorify it when we are like breastfeeding and making an egg and singing industry rhymes. We just glorify this. And this is very wrong. I used to glorify it when I was in my younger times. I didn't know better. Like super mom. Yes. Super mom. I used to call myself octopus mom. Oh, octopus mom. Yeah. I used to call myself octopus mom. But now I look back at it, I said, that was so wrong. You shouldn't be cooking while breastfeeding while checking spelling or something. When I was in support, I mean it's really sad if you look at the scene now backwards and I'm being back at it. I say there's nothing super about it. It's a very sad mom.

Who's doing everything by herself and there should be someone there to do at least one of the things that you were doing. It all relates to how we assume mothers should do, like our experiences observing other mothers and mother-like figures who seem to be able to do it all in that sense. For example, my mother, my mother was a working mom. She loved cooking. So she really made sure that every meal is cooked and everything. So when I became a mom, I felt so guilty that I'm not cooking every meal. I feel like I was feeling because I was buying food for my child. Even like a very recent moment, like when I was pregnant with my number two, I had very bad nausea and vomiting throughout my pregnancy.

So we had to order in every dinner and lunch when it's weekend. And I feel so bad. I was like, I'm not feeding my child healthy, delicious food. When I was reflecting, why do I feel so guilty? Like why is there such immense guilt within me? I realized that actually it was how I observed as a child, looking at my mother, preparing food, making sure there's food.

And yeah, a lot of times, like what you said at the beginning of our chat, automated response, we kind of like stuck with this automated role. Then we didn't realize that there is actually a reason, a history behind all this. And that's a moment of time where we say, hey, the guilt informs us. I feel that emotions, there's no good and bad. It's really about how we see and how it reminds us of the things that are not working for us, right?

So like guilt inform us that there's something that is not aligned to what we think. It is reflective of the situation right now.Or for me, that example really helps me to reflect that, hey, what's important to me? Is it the meals that is freshly cooked and prepared and with all the fancy things and colorful things? Or is it the time that we spend at the table having conversations, enjoying our meals, reconnecting at the end of the day? Which one is more important?

And to me, it was very clear that it's the connection, the relationship at the end of the day where we convene and talk through what happened in school and everything and what happened at work and what happened at home.

And I think those moments is really aligned to what we value as a family because we want to have moments that we can share our joy, share our moments of, not just joy, but also ups and downs. And that's very important to me that I have that as part of the family culture.

So yeah, it's really about being very clear what matters to us as a mom and also as a person because we are not just a mom, right?

We also have our own dreams and goals and things as well. It's really about asking yourself questions and getting the support as well and knowing that no one's a superhuman. And what works for one mom doesn't necessarily work for you. And one mom's family values doesn't have to be yours.

Yes, definitely. It's someone may be very good at doing all this playing at home thing. Someone may be good at homeschooling their kids. And some moms, they really find a lot of fulfillment in cooking every meal, baking and everything. And then it's the way they feel connected. And it's okay if your mom's style is different. I think you touched on that when you talk about the cooking.

I am in a part where society feels they look down on you in my environment if you don't cook. If you don't know how to cook, it's even worse. I know how to cook of course, but I find it very difficult to upkeep this whole home cooking thing every day on top of whatever else I wanted to. Because I realized that I would rather mom in a different way.

Like you said, I think family values are different in my place, right? So, and I think my kids also have mentioned just like the best kind of mom style I do is particularly I bring the kids out. We have fun, we do activities outside and that tires some moms out. They're like, I'm not gonna bring them out. It's too tiring. I can like grab all four and go out. Wow. Of course I'll be tired when I come back.

But for me, I feel that it's important because I feel it's like it's time out, it's making memories and things like that. So it's, they really look very forward to these things. They know who to ask. Between me and my husband, they know who to ask. So like my second one, he already has made a date with me on Tuesday.

Oh, so I supposed to go out with him on Tuesday and we are gonna do a lot of things that he wants to do. And it's supposed to be just me and him. Nobody else is allowed, not his sister or anyone. So, I think that's kind of nice because that's also the kind of bombing I like to do. Come let me bring you out and things like that. And that's not wrong either.

It's, yeah, I do cook when I feel like it. And my husband also cooks, which is also another big no-no where I am. Oh, the husband cook now, it's okay. I married someone who can cook and I'm very happy with that. #blessed. Right?

If you don't have that, I'm so sorry, but please don't look down on me. Something that you can be happy for. I can cook, my husband can cook. That means the chances of having a home cooked meal is higher in my house. Right? And my boy can cook, my eldest can cook too.

Ooh, lovely.

I find that it's something to be, yeah, like you said, it's something to be happy about. Not to say, oh, you know, this year's been like, her husband cooks, her son cooks and she's not doing the cooking every day. What kind of a wang she came, actually learning to just keep it one side. And so it's okay. And I'm fine. So certain things that used to make me very guilty last night, like all this cooking, cleaning and things. Now I think I finally learned to keep them at one hand away.

And say, I'm doing what works for my family. So if you want to have a conversation about it, you can do it at your own time of convenience. I don't need to hear it when you're in Manila. And there are certain things that still hit the guilt really hard.Right? Like when my child comes in like 10 points for spelling and I'm like, oh, I should have asked. You know? Yeah. But things like this, that still hits very hard. I find that this is my job. I should have to have checked the spelling. I should have checked the homework.

You know, all those messages from teachers, they really hit me quite hard. So I think I'll have to just go through each and see which guilt is a bit more worthy of time. And which guilt is not really worthy of my time. Because guilt in its sense is also just emotion, right? If you don't think to it, it's there because we want to do right by our kids. Yeah. Like you said, when you feel it, you know that something is off.

But I think it's good to just take a step back and say, okay, why am I feeling this? Is it okay? Is it actually me who's feeling this?

Or is it because I'm worried about what this person might think of me and that is what's making me guilty.

So it's very good to take that step back and say, is it worth my time or not?

Yeah. Right. Yeah. I think with a lot of time, we spend a lot of time and energy thinking about what other people might think about us. And like what you say, it's really frustrating and also energy draining when we feel that we are not meeting other people's expectation of us.

It takes a lot of courage and confidence to know that what other people tell us is not the reality that we believe in terms of reflecting who we are as a person and also how we want to raise our children and how we want our family to be. Yeah.

So I have to say kudos to you, staying firm to your boundaries because it's so important and it's so needed to keep your peace within your own self and within your family as well. Yeah. Yeah. Boundaries is another topic. I think it needs to another podcast. Sure. You certainly are still learning boundaries. I think they are very difficult and I'm still learning. Yeah. Yeah.

And I think I'm also in the journey of, you know, always rethinking what works for me as well. And I think boundaries is such a big topic, but I've come to the place where I think that people will always have opinions about a lot of things that we do in life. And especially when it comes to raising a child in a way that they think should be the standards.

One thing that I am currently learning is to also, not only just in terms of my response, but also notice my nervous system as well, because it affects the way that I respond to my children. I think it's so important to know what works and what doesn't work. Cause I've heard from other mothers and friends and clients to say that you just have to go with it.

Or like if they feel that, for example, like they are visiting the in-laws often, but every time they go over there, they struggle so much in terms of their criticism and not trying to bond with their children, but they still want to insist going over that kind of thing.

And they feel like I need to make sure that there's a relationship between the grandparents and the family, but it's hurting their children. It's hurting themselves. There's a time and space for everything. And there's boundaries that needs to be set, even though that there's ways that they can do about it rather than feeling that they're stuck in the situation.

Family is a very tricky thing, especially for us being Asian, right? Family is so important and we need to make sure that there's still a cordial relationship. But I think there's a difference between cordial and toxic, being very clear about the distinction and making that boundaries required. It really protects the peace that we need to make sure that our children don't get discouraged, to make sure that we are clear about what we are doing. It's not affected by other people's opinions, yeah.

What would be one thing that you want to tell moms about this topic on guilt?

I would say that to see guilt as normal, to see guilt as information, a point of reflection for us to know that there's something that you can get curious about and to look at why it happens and what are the things that you could explore to do and get support more.

A lot of people have guilt and it's very common, but it's just more about whether you see it as part of motherhood or you see it as something that you can empower yourself to do something and talk to people, get support.

Yeah, what about you? What do you think moms can do?

One thing that I would say would be that motherhood is everyone. It's not something you overcome. It's there at different phase of your mothering life. Even when it's your older, never feel be affected. So it's not something to overcome, but it's something that can be managed first.

I would say you have to do what works for you and your family and maybe even to a point to say what works for you and your family and the people you list on a daily basis. And that is already enough to handle. So everything else can just be where they are. Yeah. So just have to choose which is the situations that you would like to work on. So that's definitely something that... Because we can't be... Yeah.

Some moms, they say they live with certain people and they do not want to be pleasing them. So that's okay. If your boundaries are going to go even smaller and say, okay, then I'll do what works for me and maybe people in this room, perhaps. Not you're just going to be ending up trying to please everyone except the people who will matter, which will be you, maybe your partner and your kids.

And then if you really look at it that way, then what's the point of it all? And everyone else is happy, but not you guys. Right?

It should be dangerous and toxic when the people outside are happy, but not you and your partner and your kids. And I have seen moms share about this before. And that is a situation that has to be built. Yeah. And whether that guilt is actually worth holding on to your heart.

Yeah, totally. A lot of guilt stems from about experiences, looking at other moms or looking at online, looking at social media. It's important for moms to kind of like reflect that, okay, is this real life or is it something that is relevant to me? Or is it something that it's creating a lot of noise?

Because I think social media is great in many forms, but it gives a lot of stress and guilt to a lot of mothers to feel like they need to do one-man-day-one activities with their children or cook perfect looking meals, colorful meals, baby lap winning or whatsoever. You know all these things. It clouds moms' intuition to understand their children, to think about what to do rather than how to be with your children and see who they are as a person and their uniqueness and their characteristics. I believe that all of us have an inner wisdom within us as mothers.

It's about how we start to tune into that and how we can see our children as whole beings rather than people who need to do one-man-day-one things. There's time and space to be with them doing activities, but there's also time and space to also know that person as well, doing activities or at home. And do it ourselves. And ourselves, yeah, that's right.

Yeah, and doing it ourselves. So that it's not always about the kids. Yeah, definitely. And it's good for the kids to know that too. It's not always about them. I think while we as mothers want our children to have the time for themselves, we also have to model the way that we want them to be, taking that time and really do what fulfills us, not just mom, but as a person.

That's really important to be away from mom guilt and just also continuous developing our own self and growing our own self as a person as well. Yeah.

What do you think is the one thing that you will tell yourself way back when you are 27 years old, you mentioned when you become a new mom, what is the one thing that you will tell yourself as a new mother stepping back in time about motherhood, about parenting?

Do whhat works for you and your husband. Nobody asked me to. That is definitely the one thing I would have told myself and I wish I knew. And I think my parenting journey might have been a little bit easier that way. Not trying to please everybody, do what is considered right. Yeah.

If people would like to connect with you, how would they be able to connect with you? I would take this opportunity to invite everyone listening to connect to us on Instagram. That is where the page is a bit more active. It's "Away from Mum Guilt". And if you're not on Instagram, you're more comfortable on Facebook, we are on Facebook too. Just connect where you're comfortable with at your own pace and join our ad hoc events. We do have complimentary events as well as ad hoc paid events at a very attractive rates. Because we have good partners who work with us to offer attractive rates.

So yeah, and I would really love to just join the conversation and see how you can help other moms. And then we can work together to make this a better place for us moms to be better in mental health.

Yes, so important for the work that you do and to support mothers in feeling safe and supported and also looking into how they can look at self care. Yeah. Thank you so much for this opportunity to share. Thank you so much. And I had a very fun time talking to you about something that's so close to our hearts. Thank you.

If you'd like to further the conversation with me, do connect with me at Instagram at The Curious Mama or subscribe to my newsletter where I will share a bit more about resources relating to this topic as well. And if you'd like to show your love for this podcast, please leave a rating on Apple Podcasts. This will really mean a lot to me.

Till then, take care and remember that you are enough and keep on making magic in your unique way.