#10: How do we Spark Joy at home & in parenting? - With Dr Aparna from Global Mindful Journey
In this episode of Making Mama Magic, I have the honour to speak with Dr Aparna Sundar, KonMari® Home Organising & Montessori Parenting Coach from Global Mindful Journey.
We had fun chatting about:
What exactly is "spark joy" in KonMari? How is it relevant to mothers - in our lives & parenting?
Simplicity vs Intentionality - What's the difference, and how can they help us to do and own less while living with purpose & abundance?
Our own journeys in sustainability & conscious living - and our takeaways (so far!) on this journey
Dr Aparna's top tip in getting children to comply in tidying - instead of nagging or forcing.
Connect with Dr Aparna at:
Instagram: @globalmindfuljourney
Facebook: Mindful Organised Families With Aparna Chari Sundar
Be part of my newsletter community where I share exclusive resources, tips, behind-the-scenes & everything else that goes along with ditching the guilt, defining your own version of mothering, and parent from the heart: : https://bit.ly/3RRQlKS
I'll love to know your thoughts about the podcast and this episode. Connect with me on Instagram @_thecuriousmama or write to me at hello@thecuriousmama.co
Till then, take care and remember - you are enough and keep on making magic in your own unique ways ✨
+ or you can read the transcript by clicking here
You are listening to Making Mama Magic with honest and authentic conversations about all things related to modern motherhood, wholehearted living and peaceful parenting. Join me and my guests in our chats about redefining motherhood and parenting in a way that focuses on purpose, peace and presence while pursuing dreams and live career and business in our unique, magical way. I am your host - Ava, and I empower moms to parent with connection and curiosity and to own their confidence in motherhood.
Hi, welcome to Making Mama Magic podcast. Today, we are very honored to have Dr Aparna on our show and we'll be talking about minimalism, montessori and about sparking joy. So welcome Aparna on this show. Oh, thank you so much Ava for that warm welcome and intro. I'm delighted to be here and it's an absolute honor to share what I know with your audience.
Wonderful! So as to start, tell me more about yourself and your business. So I'm a mom to two wonderful kids. They are 10 and 8, I have a third one actually - a little puppy who just joined us recently. I also am KonMari home organizing consultant trained by Marie Kondo. I'm a Montessori Parenting coach and I'm a sustainability advocate.
I started my business Global Mindful Journey a couple of years ago, I have helped hundreds of families to simplify their home spaces not only for themselves but for their Children and they have found tangible clarity without the clutter. And so that has led to that intangible clarity as well without, you know, their headspace taking a lot of commitments or overscheduling they have more time to be with their Children. They're finding ways to connect with what really matters the most. So this role has given me so much joy and I'm excited to do more. I'm going to be starting my Master's and child psychology soon, so I'm going to be very busy, but in a very intentional way,
Wonderful, so excited for you. It will be a journey definitely. But I think it's so relevant to the work that you do as well because we talk about your own experience in terms of understanding Children and simplifying ways so that parents have the hate space to connect and know their Children better. It's it's all quite interlinked in terms of the work that you do.
Yeah, absolutely. I think it's just something that I've been wanting to dive deeper more than simply organizing people's homes and helping them reduce their clutter. But really diving deep to saying how Children are motivated to learn. And I think the Montessori philosophy is really, really aligned with that those principles, so using that tangible base as your sanctuary, as the foundation as your ankle and then setting your child up for success in life. I think that's important, but really understanding the child from the developmental aspect because you and I know even if we have multiple Children, they're so different uh really supporting them so that we take into consideration their needs and nurture their environment and the way that we bear in them uniquely.
Yeah I love that you mentioned about environment and I think in monetary philosophy there's a lot of sharing and conversations about prepared environment and I think environment is so important to create the atmosphere for nurturing our Children for understanding our our uniqueness of our Children. One thing that a lot of parents struggle is about simplification. Um so what does simplicity mean to you? You do a lot of work for clients and in your own journey as a person and as a parent now to to human child and one dog you Yeah and what do you think is the misconception about sympathy when you work with clients?
Yeah. So I think the biggest misconception most of the clients I work with have is they need to live with very less so they have this big mindset around scarcity and in fact the first session I have with them, I tell them to embrace abundance and scarcity. So that's a very like I know a very very big statement to say but when you actually break it down it just means we are finding joy in living with intention. So I don't even like saying let's live with less because that again you know we're all hardwired to get afraid of a lack of something. So we all come from this parenting where we are not allowed to waste things. We find it very hard to let go because we attach ourselves to identity to that identity of that item and we think that we are good parents because we provide x amount of things to our Children. So my role is to not force them to think the other way, but it is to facilitate their wisdom because they reach out to me for a reason. They want to find that abundance with living with that intention.
So I like using the phrase intentionality rather than minimalism because unfortunately unfortunately that word has become sort of a taboo and not many people actually want to embrace it. You have to have a spiritual awakening in some sort of way to you know, embrace minimalism to the purest form. But in my personal opinion, we can't be purists for anything in life and every everything has to be done in moderation. And it just feels even as you know, role models to our Children when we are flexible, when we can adapt when we can show that we are strong and resilient to any adversities in life. I think that that to me is much more important than being a pure Montessorian or a pure minimalist or a pure KonMari home organizer, which I don't think I am at all. So I like to meet my clients where they're at.
So even for, you know, some takeaway with what intentionality means to you for the first question you could ask is what does enough mean to me? What does transformation mean to me if I ever end marked on this calamari journey or if I choose to declutter, what do I know and feel transformation to look like and what does that enough look? So if you start from there then your efforts will align with that goal. It will be more clear how to reach their, my simplicity journey
I think I started when I got married more than a decade ago. But to be honest, I never truly embraced it because I thought it could never be for me. Uh and I and you know, it's something that only hit me after I became a parent. You know you and I both know kids come with so much stuff and there are enough marketing strategies out there that will tell you to have this toy or if you have this gadget in your kitchen, you can make the best baby food. I had all of that for my first child to be honest and it's quite embarrassing to share but I had all of that for my first child when you start decluttering and letting them go, then you realize, oh my gosh, I spent so much money on that breast milk specific container for my fridge when I could have just used a regular bin. I think I'm taking baby steps and realizing what it meant for me and what the benefits could be for me and the biggest benefits to me was not having to deal with so much stuff on, on a daily basis and feeling guilt or shame or embarrassment for the costs and boiled for the time it takes to take stock of these things for the amount of physical space it takes in our homes and we all live in simple flats in Singapore. I don't have that much storage space. So it was starting to affect my mental health. Um, and so I think it started off as something I wanted to do as a mom.
It truly became serious only when I decided to do something about it when I was moving homes. Um, so four years ago when we were thinking about moving homes, I decided I will only bring over 20 boxes of things that became a goal to really be intentional with what you're bringing over and you save on movers, you save on storage space, you know, you, you save on so much with that and there was a lot less stress and headache, that was a life changing process. So I recommend that to all of you who are listening, if you ever planning to move homes or you're planning a new phase in your life or you're entering a new phase, try and do that before so that you're entering that new face with this positive energy. Yeah, that to me is simplicity. Living with intention in a nutshell.
Yeah, I think it's so important to welcome a transition in life and also like a new space with energy and intention. I think it's, it's so crucial for moms to be very intentional because sometimes we are so busy with so many things and life brings us to, you know, things that we may not be pausing to think about. Is it something that it's really matters to me? And like it's only been like situation, for example, moving house that you start to think about, okay, what is these things, all this clutter in my house hanging around making space physically. I think it's only when big changes like this, people think about, okay, let's do something about it.
We mentioned about simplicity and intentionally just curious what is the one thing that mothers can start thinking about simplifying their own areas or in their lives? What is the first step that they think they can do?
Yeah. My clients are parents and they have all probably done some sort of de cluttering in the past. Right? I think we all have done it. Our Children have growing developmental needs every six months during school holidays. We're just sitting with their toys are sitting with their books, seeing what they've outgrown uniforms, all of that. But what I actually encourage parents to do is first to understand your why, why do you actually want to do this? And to a lot of them it is, you know, I don't want to be stressed out when I wake up and I'm walking over these big boxes of toys in my living room or I want to be able to spend more time with my kids because I just don't want to be spending it over the weekend putting away things and de cluttering things and listing them on facebook groups. And these are real issues that my clients have shared with me. Another parents shared last year with me was I want my Children to appreciate what they have. They gave me a vibe of entitlement was one of my parents clients shared that with me and I actually felt felt for her because I think a lot of us know at the back of our mind that this would happen, but she was so vulnerable and shared that with me, there could be a variety of reasons why. So the first step I would say is don't start with the rule, rule by rule approach. Don't just start decluttering because that's a very band aid solution to your decluttering efforts, but really ask yourself, you know why? Because when you know why you want to do it and write it down somewhere and keep it simple.
You don't have to be complicated language, you can just say, I want to have more time my kids every day instead of tripping over toys, you can be as honest as possible because to be honest decluttering using this method. The method is having that honest conversation with your things once you start having that honesty with your things, your belongings, why you have specific items in your home, what purpose to be served and why they are there.
You can start having honest conversations about the intangible aspects of your life. Do I want to parent this way? How can I get my partner on board? How can I be an inspiration and a guiding light to the rest of my family instead of forcing them to do something. So tidy is something that is a lifestyle choice. It's like any other, it's like any other choice you make for yourself. To me I give this analogy of, you know, if you want to be become vegetarian one way you don't force your whole family to start eating meatless meals for three times a day, right? You start doing it first. You talk about it from the rooftops you share about how it's affected your life. You share how it's helped your body your mind all of that. So the same way you know, first start with your wife the motivation and then start doing it for yourself.
First, don't ever start with your Children's play space. Don't start with their closet again. You want to start doing this to build trust with them. Even when I work with clients, I never start even though they come with me with place places and you discover that we always start with the person who has reached out. So if this is something that you really want to do for your life or for your poor, start with your personal belongings first, start with yours and just sprinkle in the conversations of your efforts during dinner time or very organically when you're in the car or you're on the train, just talk about it in a very, you know what Mommy did today, there was a gentleman who came and picked up some of my clothes that I no longer fit in and I felt so happy they're going to a loving home when you start having these conversations with your Children in a very like I said matter of fact organic way, then they don't see it as a way for them to ever feel disrespected that you're touching their things.
So they wouldnt feel defensive that mommy is asking me to do my things but get her closet or you know Children see hypocrisy very quickly, they see double standards very fast because they see life how it is. You know, they they will openly see their black and whites and describe what they see. So we don't want to ever give them those opportunities to think that we want you to do something but we haven't said that example yet.
So I think the easiest way to first start is start with your own things first and start with the your clothes. I think clothes is the first category in the KonMari method and its two most most women, It is not a very sentimental category, Marie kondo has done a lot of research and she says start with the clothes first and really commit to doing it. You know, see it through. You're tidying through your decluttering. When you start making those efforts yourself for your own things and feel the information yourself in your personal space, then you can be an inspiration to the rest of your family members and even teach them what you know, because only when you learn you do then you can teach and be that example that you want.
So um you can start your intentional journeys there. I made a big mistake. I remember when we wanted to go zero waste. I share my own example. I remember that we passed by Mcdonald's and we didn't have our usable with us and my Children were hungry, they were irritable and I told my husband no no we can't eat here. And that was the only restaurant right in front of us and we'd have to travel a bit to get to another one out of the center and everyone was irritable but I refused to back down. And this is the first phase of my zero waste or low waist journey. My husband had to say, you know what, just can you just back off, let's let's just create sound waste, it's fine. My kids are hungry and we can't do this and I felt so miserable after that. and it shifted things in my perspective on how we in any lifestyle choice we want to make we can't be so rigid in anything. I just had to acknowledge that this was what was happening and I had to re prioritize and shift perspectives a bit and think about what do I really want out of this? How how can I acknowledge what's happening in front of me, forgive myself for this mistake and talk about it as a learning opportunity. You know this is a story that we talked about even now and it just brings us all to laughter. It was quite frustrating back then a couple of years ago but even now we talk about how it's okay to make mistakes. Yeah to do it in front of the kids and that's how you set that example. Thank those opportunities to have even come into our lives because that's how we learn and that's how it's showing to our Children that we are willing to be human, we are willing to make mistakes and we have growth mindsets we are not stuck or fixated to be so rigid and it starts from the home.
I always say all of this tidying and decluttering is simply a springboard for having clarity in other aspects of your life. Sure we can have all the organizing and labels and everything but that's about all after that there's more to you and your life if we keep thinking about I need to have and I also don't like even we all use the term O. C. D. So loosely I think that's quite wrong because this is a clinical condition in. Yeah that require help with soap. We are quite pedantic about our ways about how things should be. We aren't really teaching our Children that flexibility and being adaptable. So really make the mistakes learn from them move on and we all grow together as a family.
That yeah I think it's so helpful to think about the end in mind the bigger we should a bigger purpose when we come to doing decluttering. I think it's so important to think about how we start in terms of decluttering because often parents they kind of think okay if you're it's only for the Children stuff but like what you mentioned it really starts from the parents where we have intentional time and we can model that we are doing and we are living that lifestyle choice that we want to bring in more spaces and time and joy in our lives. And that's really walking the talk in terms of making sure that this is the way that we want to invite this energy and whatever that motivates you in life and absolutely I I closed my Children right? So like I used to be the kind that I feel that okay I'm doing cloth. I bring, I need to make sure that every single moment we need to call piper so that we can minimize waste in life. And I also have had like other caregivers in the family. They also shared, you know, like what is it like that at all as we try to onboard them and make it very enthusiastic. I had my first born here to stay at my last place for for a while and we just don't want to make it so troublesome for my indoors. And I just said that okay, it's fine just responsible for that period of time. And we just yeah, it's just really about knowing that Sometimes we just have to let it go in that sense. It doesn't mean that we are making mistakes. It doesn't mean that we are giving out of that life choices. Just being very intentionally being knowing that you know, it's not 100% of time is about it's a journey, right? Journey in that sense. Yes.
And I think what you shared was so important because you know, no one even within our family, our partners will not have the same priorities as us. It's just because they love us that they want to make sure that we're partnering and doing things together in collaboration right? Except us. You know, we only we know what our personal goals are even for the family. We try our best. I think that's more important we do the very best we can in the circumstances that are presented to us and and I think just making peace with that knowing that we've just done our best is truly hardly truly satisfying and we can be comforted knowing that that's what we've done. Yeah. And yeah, and I love that you mentioned about making mistakes because having that conversation is about, it's okay to make mistakes I think is really critical, especially for Children who are also seeing us. You know, the words that we use, the behaviors that we show and even like normal behaviors like they watch us and they learn and they observe and they noticed like they, you know, like our parents or my mom feel very uncomfortable and guilty, they absorb all of that right? And then like again, going back to the energy that the way that we think about mistakes, think about um not doing the right thing, not doing it perfectly at all times. So I think it boils down to also the way that they see about trying new things, trying different ways. Being curious, being open to learning new things. I think it brings to a lot of all these different aspects of linking to what what you mentioned about growth mindset right? This is all interrelated as well. So Absolutely, yeah, so I think that's like what you mentioned about modeling and all. I think it's really important to to start with ourselves and everything. And I think that lays off a lot of expectations, right? Because as human beings, we're all hardwired blame. You know something doesn't go right. We, we find the first most vulnerable person in our way and say, oh it was because of the circumstance of this person. And but if we do this, this effort, we get on this journey ourselves, we know that it's just us, we are doing this for ourselves and you know who knows where the journey is going to take us and you know you just be that shining. We cannot like for anyone else to experience, they can just be in our presence and they want to be inspired. We can just open our closets and say, oh I can find all my things. Just that one phrase can get them to come and see, oh what is mommy talking about? And it can just be these micro moments in the day doesn't have to be one big, sit down listen and say let's do a folding thing. You know like I remember we had, you know, they should just watch me and so many days with my Children don't want to fold their clothes, they just leave it on big piles on their bed and I'm like yeah that's fine and they know by the third day they haven't folded their three days of close to phone. And so that itself is the learning for them depend on just two little by little every day whenever they get the chance, that's a topic for another day. How to, not to, not to get them to comply because of any coercion not forcing but but it's about giving them that sense of control that hey, yeah, it's up to you. You can manage your time. Of course this is appropriate. We have to watch and see where our Children are at but just giving them that freedom to experience again from their mistakes. So caller from life from experiences. I think that's just so important. Some something just letting go I think is doing a lot of people think letting go means you're doing nothing. But actually when you let go, you're, it takes a lot more effort to let go in my opinion, so much effort to let it does monastery is about that right? Sitting on your hands. And she said, yeah, yeah.
I just wanted to mention letting go is so hard for recovering perfectionist. I know right? Like I do feel that I do see myself a perfectionist. Like I want to make sure that things go right. But I also have the side of me that I'm open to different things. That perspective. I know that sometimes it's a struggle like allowing people to do the different way that I am comfortable. Yeah, I think it's hard because as mothers, we want to do things right. But absolutely when we let go of wanting it everything right and allowing the space for others to learn to make mistakes and to allow them that eventually is about not just doing it right, but about the whole thing. Yeah. The person that you want in life and also what is the angle in mind is the is the space is about relationships, right? Oh yeah, I think it's important for even Children to know that when we don't place that much importance on our things, we actually value our relationships a lot more and you know, for me, I have these conversations about gift giving when they actually see us model grace and courtesy. Yeah, we accept gifts and money is not again on this high horse about being so minimalist and she doesn't allow us to bring gifts home or party favor bags home, you know, it's all it's all about helping them teach what is not just a social appropriateness, but also really empathizing with the the individual who's having the heart to come and give you something was of love. So, you know, we have conversations in our home about love language which is the gift giver, I try to understand what my kids love languages are always encourage my clients to do the language quiz with their kids like sitting one on one with each of their Children just to understand what they believe is a way to receive love Yeah.
In KonMari, the system that a lot of people know which is called joy, could you like share like a very simplified explanation of joy really is and how do you think mothers could embrace this? So Joy in their own lives as well? Yeah, so I think is a beautiful umbrella term to kind of encapsulate the essence of what the matter is and you know it truly is that you know, be cluttering what you normally do is throw away things that you don't like, what you don't use and what you haven't been respecting. So what happens is you'll be cluttered with the negative lengths and have that negative perspective. But again, I'm not talking about having a toxic positive outlook on your things and saying, oh I want everything around me to be happy and happy check. So it isn't that it is again, how do we infuse intention and how do we infuse that sense of purpose and happiness knowing that our things are respected and used as much as uh you know given attention any other person in our home is given attention to. So I like to say that if we can personify our belongings because to be honest all our things were once living right. If you think about the cotton bedspreads next to you right now or the books that you're reading, Everything has come from a cotton field or or or a tree or metal has come from them, you know from the, from the earth, right from the so you think about different things around you and think, oh my goodness, they were all once living, they all had some sort of spirit of solar ones. And if we think that we have these items here to serve us, they deserve the love and attention that any other person in my home that you know gets from me. If you think about, am I giving this my attention, am I using this? Um do I love this? Do I reach out for this all the time? You're just shifting the way you're asking the questions, what will I chose if I had this category in front of me? And then the other things, what remains you? You just thank it for its service or send them away with gratitude to polls where they can be loved again or if they're going to be discarded because they've been used so much, you know, they don't want a worn out that they have been of great service to you.
So, again, one of the pillars of the KonMari method is gratitude, big pillar of injury. So I would say that spark joy, in fact, I don't use it much with my clients because nobody understands that in reality it's very difficult to translate in the ground. So we, what I always say is for you some reflective questions just like this and at the end of the day, we're just showing our appreciation, showing our gratitude for our things, organizing them in a way that they can be seen sort of having all your Children's toys in a big deep storage bin and where they just append all the toys like that, have them in, have them in shallow bins where they can see everything. You have less of something that bin is not just to have another looking bin, but it's to allow the item to be seen to be accessed to be given attention to. And also it's easy for your child to put away. So it's those different steps where that item shoulders, it's not just the bin, but it's what that bin is meant to do for your things. Social media and internet can be great but let them just a form your efforts. Let let that just be a way for you to know that you're doing your best rather than I'm not doing it as well as them. Again, it's all about appreciating what you have in front of you. So I would say spark joy another way to look at it and other than gratitude is also being very present in the moment. What am I being surrounded with that is helping me in my life right now. What, supporting my child right now instead of I don't want this, I want to keep this for future use or I might get fit into that one day or we may be able to find some use.
So really think about what you want and let the items align with you rather than let the items sit there and you force those items to fit with your lifestyle, you know? So it's just again looking at that reverse mindset. Yeah, I think it's really great to embrace that mindset and also have the opportunity to empower Children because it's really really about looking at ways to involve our Children and thereby allowing them the opportunity to think about their things, how they want to be involved and how they build the relationship with things in the house and taking the ownership to take care of their own things.
How do you think mothers can enjoy parenting and motherhood better? What do you think is one thing that you think they can do or any mindsets or ideas or systems that they can embrace? So I would say that living with less in that tangible home environment also means having less expectations as much as possible from yourself from anyone. And and that is possible if you're really living in the moment right now, there are a lot of tools you can use to really be in the moment with your Children. So it's about quality, it's not about quantity. So when it comes to Anything in your life, having one of something that's high quality rather than too many of something having 10 minutes of quality time with your child with no technology around you with no distractions is much, much more important than having multiple times of the day where you feel like you need to spend time with your child. I would say that less but higher quality is much more powerful than thinking that you have to spend the whole day with your child or be resentful and regret that things are not going your way or you know, I need to have all of these different grimm's wooden toys or only then my child will be happy or I will be happy and you know, it's, it's truly not that we've had the same toys for the last for five years now and my Children still play with the same. Yeah, it's remarkable how creative they can be when they are provided with less because you're not overwhelming or stressing them out.
Okay, so for those who are listening in, if they would like to connect with you, how can they reach out to you? Yeah. So I'm on instagram @globalmindfuljourney and I have a facebook group, mindful organized families. And also I'm contacted via email at a partner at global journey dot com.
Thank you again, it's a wonderful conversation. I'm so happy we could chat and have this opportunity to talk about so many things that we have in common. Yeah. And thank you for sharing. I'll put all the links in the show notes for this podcast. I appreciate you for sharing so many things about KonMari and simplicity and all, I think it's really relevant for a lot of moms like us. You're very welcome. Thanks again, Ava.
Thank you.
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